(Okay, so I figure if I have time to write long Mandira Bedi defending comments on other people's blogs I can probably post on my own)
When I was seven or eight, I was spending the weekend at a cousin’s house and he was entertaining me with amusing stories from his school. Apparently a boy in his class who was very earnest about animal rights had told the class about a farm where poultry was reared for food. At this farm, the chickens in question were treated very well, and given all the care imaginable…before being killed. The boy in question thought this a spectacular instance of human compassion. My cousin and I thought it was hilarious at the time. Now I’m not so sure.
A rather large digression here. As an adult, vegetarianism has been an issue I’m afraid to face. Ethically, I’m against the unnecessary killing of any creature, and while I am more concerned with humans an their rights than with animals and theirs (with some exceptions – I’d have quite cheerfully killed anyone who hurt my dog) I find it hard to justify my own consumption of meat when I could easily get along without it *. However. Let us assume for the purposes of this post that I and the world are unlikely to turn vegetarian in the near future. Since poultry killing is inevitable, what constitutes humane poultry killing?
I hadn’t really thought about it (beyond wincing at the tiny cages they’re stuffed into around here), but I think until a couple of weeks ago I would have agreed with the kid at my cousin’s primary school.
What made me think about this was the recent (and ongoing) slaughter of stray dogs in Bengaluru. I’ve been afraid to watch the news this week because of those visuals – dogs dying is something I cannot stand. But the worst bit has been the reports of the dogs being so trusting and friendly towards the people about to kill them. That part is horrifying to me. There’s just something infinitely pathetic about an animal that is completely secure in its belief that it will meet with warmth being slaughtered. This is why people (real people) don’t kick puppies – because puppies have no reason to think they’ll be kicked there’s something evil about hurting them. (This would probably hold true for most baby animals and possibly humans too, but puppies are the ones I’ve spent the most time with) And so I wonder about the farm that kid talked about, and whether those clueless hens looked surprised when the people who had provided this wonderful environment (what sort of luxury does one give a chicken anyway?) wrung their necks.
And I wonder if it wouldn’t somehow be kinder, if you’re going to breed an animal only to kill it, to treat it with all the harshness possible, teach it to expect that sort of behaviour from you. I don’t feel very good about the idea of making an animal’s life miserable, but at least it would save us all the sight of a dog running up to be murdered wagging its tail.
*When I was a child I went off fish for years because I’d seen one being caught and flopping about on the deck till it died. That wasn’t a choice, it was sheer nausea. In the last few years I’ve had plenty of reasons to be nauseated again and give up meat, but it hasn’t happened. I wonder when I lost that ability to be horrified/ nauseated.
Tuesday, 27 March 2007
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Well this is apt. I've been contemplating turning back into a non vegetarian. I turned vegetarian more than a year ago...not for any strong belief per se, but more to see if I could give up meat. It's been strangely easy. But it also puts me in uncomfortable situations as my whole family is non vegetarian and my dietary habbits then start affecting how they eat when we go out (much to the dislike of my sister).
And of course, people always ask me why I turned vegetarian and saying "Just like that" seems so silly.
WHUT! Up the Veggies!
I'm certain at least 50% of non-vegetarians would not eat meat if they had to kill the animal/bird/fish/vermin-of-choice themselves. Or even if they saw how they slaughter them at most eating joints and kebab houses. I saw a chicken being killed at a roadside joint in Calcutta, once. It was diabolical.
*rubs chin thoughtfully* Then again, if you saw how MOST street-food in Delhi is prepared, you'll probably get explosive diarrhoea before you could say aloo-tikki.
Happy animals give better meat. Stressed animals produce chemicals which spoil the meat for human taste (and consumption).
As for the whole trust thing, you don't name food animals, and you don't eat pets which you name.
Humans are disposed not to hurt organisms they think are cute. This is an evolutionary artefact, and has nothing to do with trust issues. It is for the same reason that people find babies cute.
Humane killing? Compassion is a sharp edge.
In the last few years I’ve had plenty of reasons to be nauseated again and give up meat, but it hasn’t happened. I wonder when I lost that ability to be horrified/ nauseated.
Perhaps when you saw how humans behave with each other?
Ah! the joys of anthropomorphism.
They're hens. There's no reason to believe that trust or expectation or gratitude are states of mind they're capable of. Whether they look surprised or not is, I suspect, entirely up to your imagination.
lol @ falstaff's comment :)
Two things
First, killing with compassion must be done away with, eh? Instead ill treat them , torture them, make their life a living hell and then, voila, give them salvation.
Try that with human beings as well, those on the death row that is.
Second, it doesn't make the bile well up in your knotted throat anymore because you've learnt to rationalise, as your post shows.
actually you don't have to turn vegetarian "just like that." You can drop names of Descartes, Kant, Wittgenstein too in your arguments :)
seriously though, it is definitely not a case of anthropomorphism. animal rights is a very serious and extremely fascinating topic in the philosophy of law and ethics. I havent read much but from whatever I have read it really makes you think about such concepts like rationality, consciousness, right to life etc in a completely new way. It is still a highly contested discipline but worth making your way into.
This is a classic work by philosopher Peter Singer. There are many other books and lots of reading stuff on the internet too.
the sole reason why chickens are reared in a beautiful environment with all desired comforts is that they grow normally and superlatively. so that when they are eventually killed they arent malnourished, or too thin, or have spindly legs. in big chicken farms, with so many chickens kept together, they are apt to not have enough room to grow as they would normally. hence, the free-range chicken style, with stress-counselling and aroma therapy and what not.
as for killing something that trusts you so much, we got to do what we got to do. perhaps the stray dogs should be kept and reared in a pound or something, because needless killing of animals of such vast pet-potential is wrong. but for chickens, we do all we do for the sole purpose of eating them plump and all. like the witch did for hansel?
im vegetarian myself. and i dont agree with killing of animals. but its also a natural order of the food-chain. i dont think i can speak on the non-vegetarianism vs vegetarianism issue.
am reminded of the cow in H2G2 that walks up and asks how the people would like to eat it :)...is that what would make people turn veggie?
hmmm, I have too many thoughts about this subject and the various responses. should try to put those into words, soon.
"because puppies have no reason to think they’ll be kicked there’s something evil about hurting them"
- i've had a few puppies through the years and could picture the trust part ! nicely done !
another non-veggie
good, um, food for thought.
i don't know, though--i tend to feel more of a bond with cats and dogs, at least, than fish or even chickens. i do think there's an actual relationship at least viz my cat and me. i know people who keep fish for pets, and they're pretty, and i'm sure they feel pain if they're lifted out of water, but...i'm not sure -trust- is exactly the same, y'know. it is hard to say since all of it involves a certain amount of anthropomorphizing, but...
and the thing is--if you're gonna keep those pets, -they- do need to eat meat, even if you don't.
life feeds on life.
and yes, i am sure i am being self-justifying here, as a meat-eater.
anyway, what anonymouse said: it's beneficial for the -humans- to treat the animals better. i'd say spiritually, too. yeah, maybe a lot of people wouldn't kill their own animals for food, but a number do; and no, it doesn't have to involve dehumanizing, i don't think; there's a reason why people have ritualized it, given thanks, and so on and so forth.
i mean, you're talking more about guilt, i think, than the animal, wrt "expectations." it'd be saving ONESELF pain, to treat the animal like it was already worthless, so as not to feel it as much when doing the killing.
i think it'd be better all around, for honesty as well, to accept the feelings if you're going to do the deed (including the eating). You pays your money and you takes your choice.
this also leads to more responsible decisions wrt how one treats other humans, i think. one might not become a complete pacifist, but one might be more likely to -really seriously consider- the ramifications from all angles before o i don't know, declaring war? or supporting it.
("Alice, Pudding. Pudding, Alice.")
and Peter Singer creeps me the fuck out. there's such a fucking odd discrepancy between the way he talks about animals and the way he talks about, say, people with disabilities.
Ingrid Newkirk's a freak, also.
in general i am suspicious of people who get so worked up about the purity of their Cause and at the same time engage in casual, even gratuitous callousness/cruelty on a daily basis, in an "end justifies the means" sort of way.
Never understood the veggie debate. It's ecology. We're supposed to eat 'em.
@szerelem: That's pretty much the reason I stopped myself :). Not cos I wanted to see if I could but jlt.
Erm..I'm not deeply aware of the reason why the dogs are being killed (because they are stray!)
Even husbands and wives stray, occasionally.. (KANK blues)
Let's wring their necks too.. ;-)
I second szerelem. I became a vegetarian for no particular reason, really. And when people ask me why I'm a vegetarian, it seems foolish to say "oh, err cause I felt like it" and as time wore on, I realized that I really didn't want to be a vegetarian anymore.
Although I must say that the new French bistro which opened near my house had a lot to do with it. Ahem.
I agree that killing a stray dog or a farm-reared animal for food is quite the same. The concept of humane killing is to ensure that the living being dies with as less pain as possible.
Its incorrect to say that its better to illtreat an animal you are going to kill anyway. The emotions you are talking about are human, pain while dying slowly is something that all animals feel.
Its the same reason that criminals on a death row are not subject to a slow painful death.
That is my naturalistic perspective towards death and killing.
Aishwarya,
out of curiosity, what are your ethical feelings about eating animals which are not reared- fish and game?
Gah. I get comments when I have no time to deal with them properly.
Szerelem, Megha, Revealed - You people are just strange. I accepted long ago that I had no will power. ;)
Shikha - I'm not so sure anymore. I've seen chicken and goats being killed and it hasn't really affected me.
Also. Do you have holiday plans yet? When are you back in town?
Anonymouse - Humans are disposed not to hurt organisms they think are cute. This is an evolutionary artefact. Oh I know, I'm only trying to rationalise it to myself. Obviously I am unable to do so.
Falstaff - Is it bad that I find the idea of a surprised chicken terrifically entertaining?
Mithun - Kneejerk angry post, I'm really not advocating cruelty. I'd been avoiding the visuals on TV for a few days and the day I wrote this post I'd finally seen them.
Alok - I read a bit of Singer last year. I'm still not sure where I stand, but yes, it's very interesting.:)
C&B - *snerk* at aromatherapy!
whoiscb - ...interesting name. And yes, that's one of the better moments in the books - I love how Arthur's the only one affected by it.
Alie - I'm amazed you and I have never talked about this, actually. Long emails soon?:)
bvn - Thank you!
belledame - argh. questions. complexity. sigh.
Why does Singer scare you? I know very little about him. What has he said about people with disabilities?
arcopol chaudhuri - *blink*
niket - see my response to Mithun.
aadisht - Hmm. I hadn't really thought about it. At some level perhaps it's more natural to kill animals that aren't reared specifically for the purpose of being killed. Especially since in many places where there's reason to believe that not killing them would destroy the ecosystem - rabbits and deer, for example.
Most of the game I've eaten has been awful though.
I once had a conversation about this very topic with "Illiad" (not a typo), who writes User Friendly. I haven't been able to find it, but as I remember it, here were the two sides:
Me: I see two self-consistent views one can have.
Case 1: animals have no rights to speak of. Feel free to kick and/or eat them for your own pleasure. After all, eating animals is more cruel than kicking them. (This is my view.)
Case 2: animals have rights. Eating them, kicking them or otherwise harming them for fun is wrong.
Illiad: Animals can be killed and eaten, as long as you respect them. Killing them painlessly is less cruel than kicking them.
I don't really buy that, but it's another point of view.
I was actually in Bangalore when the street dogs mauled that poor unfortunate child to death. The newspapers went berserk only fuelling the over active imaginations of the residents.
And then began the dog killing spree. It appalled me. Not only because it is so easy for us humans to just kill a poor defenseless animal, but because the reasons were loose and deeply rooted in stoooopid politics. The current government is in trouble. And they will do anything to win the support of Bangaloreans. Which is why when Rajkumar passed away and there was unabated violence on the streets, the government was blamed for it. And to make things more spicy turns out the opposition staged the violence in the first place. Jeez.
And now when everyone's crying blue murder[or decapitation!] there is a curious sense of deja vu.
Animal activists all over Karnataka are furious. Their defense being if we must kill all dogs for the actions of 4 dogs[who apparently attacked the child because he threw stones at them] then lets kill all men because one man raped a woman somewhere. everywhere.
I acquiesce.
Probably the day you first realised that what you were eating had to be killed before it could be cooked and served to you, and yet it didn't stop you. Probably that day.
But then when did killing get associated with humane?
Nice thoughts... and a good blog.... enjoyed reading.
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